Michael Cappellano
Professors Vasquez and Paulino
4/23/08
Veterans: Voices of War
Interview Transcription with Marian Zotollo
MC: How long have you known Tony?
MZ: 68 years.
MC: He was drafted correct?
MZ: Yes he was.
MC: When he was drafted were the two of you dating at all?
MZ: Yes, we became engaged than.
MZ: He asked me to marry him before he went away.
MC: What was it like having Tony in the Military?
MC: How was it with you being over here, and him being overseas?
MZ: Very lonely, worrisome, you never know when would get some news, that something had gone wrong. Yeah so you worried, but you went to work, and tried to the best you could do.
MC: Was it difficult?
MZ: It was difficult.
MC: Did the two of you marry as soon as he got out of the service?
MZ: We got married when he graduated. He went through training, and when he graduated, and became a pilot, he got a short leave. When he came, we got married, and than I went back with him.
MC: Did Tony accept it right away that he was drafted, or was he like I don’t want to go?
MZ: Oh, he accepted it right away.
MC: Did h….. (Gets cut off)
MZ: In those times, everybody was going, and ya knew when your time came, you were going, and you kind of always accepted it.
MC: Did he know at all it was most likely going to happen?
MZ: I think they all knew it was going to happen, it was a lottery, ya knew sooner or later your number would come up! You just didn’t know when, because everybody had to register. Once ya got to be 21 you had to register?
MC: It was 21 than?
MZ: Yea, it was.
MC: Now it’s like 18.
MZ: Well now you register at 18 but you don’t have any draft.
MC: Did he seemed scared at all or frightened to go in?
MZ: No not at all.
MC: He just went in with a clear head?
MZ: Yes he did.
MC: That’s very honorable.
MZ: Brave is what it was.
END OF PART I
BEGINNING OF PART II
MC: Now during Tony’s time over seas, did he communicate that much with you at all?
MZ: Yes, by mail, there were no telephone conversations back than, not like today, but by mail yes. He wrote very often.
MC: And while he was over there, when he would write you, were there any specific experiences that you remember him writing you about.
MZ: OH yes, yes he wrote, not to much about what was happening, but letters were sent. He would write about what he was doing. He told me about his plane having a malfunction, and him having to land it on one wheel. He told me things that he was able to tell me but, he wrote told me what he was doing. But anything that was military secret, he couldn’t say. He tried to sound up beat, and good. You know happy all the time.
MC: In his letters?
MZ: Yes, Never once complained.
MC: How often did he write? Like every week, every month?
MZ: Oh yes, no no, before he was shot down he would write every week, sometimes twice a week.
MC: And, How many years did he do in the service?
MZ: Let me check. (Looks at honorable discharge papers)
END OF PART II
BEGINNING OF PART III
MZ: He went in 1941, and he was drafted, and his honorable discharge was in 1945.
MC: I heard that Tony was also a prisoner of war, while he was in the service?
MZ: Yes.
MC: I obviously guess he wasn’t able to write to you than?
MZ: No, no He used to write, and I used to write, but our letters never reached each other.
MC: Where was he held captive?
MZ: In Germany.
MC: In Germany? (Looking Surprised)
MZ: Yes
MC: Was he in a concentration camp?
MZ: No, he was in a Prisoner of War camp. He was in Stalaglog 17.
MC: And those were different from the concentration camps?
MZ: Oh yes!
MC: Was the treatment better?
MZ: Well, It was a different thing all together. Concentration camps, they were picking up people of different nationalities, which they didn’t want. They were not doing that with United States army?
MZ: Or Air Force for that matter. He was in the Air Force.
MZ: All branches, had prisoners, but he was in camp for Air Force officers.
MC: Was he with any body in his crew?
MZ: No, He was with other officers, but everybody was separated.
MC: When was he captured, and put into, POW camp?
MZ: I know he was a prisoner for 9 months.
MC: For 9 months? (Said with excitement)
MZ: MHHMM (Gets up and looks back to honorable discharge papers)
END OF PART III
BEGINNING OF PART IV
MC: So what year was his plane shot down?
MZ: In 1944!
MC: How did he manage to get out alive if the plane was shot down?
MZ: Well he parachuted out.
MC: Did he speak much about it at all, being a prisoner?
MZ: As time went on he did. Not at the very beginning so much. But yea after a while he would talk about it.
MC: Did he explain the kind of treatment they put him under?
MZ: Yes, yes! Physically they didn’t hurt him but, they had no heat, very little food, and they were there in the winter. It was freezing.
MC: Did he get sick at all while he was there?
MZ: NO, he was able to with stand it. You know they got a very small ration of food all the time, and what they did was pool everything together in where he was. I don’t know how many people all together, it was like a compound. So many people in one maybe 4 or 5, they used to pool everything.
MC: Okay so they kinda shared it in away?
MZ: Yea, they would use cigarettes as barter. Like let’s say they got a ration of cigarettes, they would say like two cigarettes for you chocolate bar or what ever.
MZ: So they used to have a barter system, and they pooled their things together, so that the food would last. It was kind of an honor system, everything got pooled, and they cooked, and rationed some kinds of utensils out of the cans. And than they….( gets cut off)
MC: Pretty good system.
MZ: Yes yes, that’s how they managed to exist. If something tore, they pulled the wool out of their blanket, and use it for thread.
MC: Now you showed me some metals before, he was rewarded for his actions, and time spent in the service?
MZ: For so many missions, and for where they flew, and the Purple Heart was for when they got hit by flack. He got Clusters for so many missions, for so many missions you got another cluster. Yea they’re all mostly for bravery, and time served, and missions you went on.
MC: He did quite a bit of missions.
MZ: He was put down for 31, I guess 2 of them might have been, missions that had nothing to do with bombing, but he had actually 29 missions where it was going over and bombing, and coming back.
MC: When he returned from the war, a lot of times they have soldiers that you know come back a little messed up. Or they suffer from PTSD. Did he suffer from anything similar to that?
MZ: Nope, not at all.
MC: So he was just 100% okay when he came back?
MZ: Very thin but that was all.
MC: Really, because of being in the war camps?
MZ: Well you’re not eating, and you know.
MC: Probably the food was terrible, that they gave him.
MZ: Yea, well listen, The Germans didn’t have much food themselves, especially by the end of the war. They were feeding them potatoes, and kohlrabi. That was like a cabbage, he said if he ever saw another Kohlrabi in his life he would go nuts.
MC: I was gonna say I had no idea what that was.
MZ: I didn’t know either, he said the Germans they grow, it’s like a root vegetable. It’s like a little cabbage, or Brussels sprouts. He didn’t like them. The Red Cross would send them like some kind of cereal too, like a cream of wheat or some brown sugar cereal. They would heat up the water, and mix, and eat that at times.
MC: So when were you made aware, that he was made…(gets cut off)
MZ: Prisoner
MC: Yea.
MZ: He was shot down August 9th. I got the notification, the telegram on August 22nd, so that wasn’t too bad. Than in September they sent me a letter that he was, a prisoner of war. So it wasn’t such a long time to wait to see what happened. It happened to happen on all of our special days. He was shot down on his birthday, I received the telegram that he was missing in action on my birthday, and than on our Anniversary, I got the letter that he was a prisoner.
MC: Wow, So when you found all of this out, what was running through your mind at the time? You know your husband is an MIA?
MZ: No fun, it was terrible.
MC: I could imagine how nervous you were.
MZ: Oh very much, you don’t know what’s going on but, I had a good support from his parents, and my parents, encouraging. Especially his father, he just came right over to me, and just kept saying it’s all right everything will be fine, let’s not get to excited over this. He was grieving himself, but he was.
MC: Trying to think positive.
MZ: Yea, he was trying to bolster me up. And like everything else, you’ve got a job, and your working, and you’ve got to settle down, and go back to work. Every body had to do it.
MC: So you were working at this time?
MZ: Yes, yes
MC: What was your occupation?
MZ: I worked for the navy.
MC: Oh you worked for the navy.
MZ: Yea well, I was just ehh… I worked in a fuel control system, over on Broad street in New York.
MC: When he got out, and after the war was over, and the bombing of Hiroshima, did you know if he was gonna get out right away, or were they still gonna hold him.
MZ: No, no we didn’t know when they’d get back it’s still this matter of sending all these people back home, and after flying all that time, they took him home on a boat to Boston.
MC: So after all that being a prisoner of war for the United States of America, they didn’t offer him any transportation when he got back from Boston to New York?
MZ: Well no, I guess they got them from Boston, to here. They landed, the boat landed in Boston, but than I ink they were able to get from Boston to here, to New York.
MC: At least they did that much.
MZ: Oh yea, and than they did come home that wasn’t for good.
MC: Why?
MZ: Because there still was war in Japan.
MC: Oh wow.
MZ: So you got, I think it was a month leave and than they were going to reassign you.
MC: So, If there was still a war going on Japan, you know if he was held captive in Germany but they released him, and he came home. You know after all those months, spent in POW camps.
MZ: They still had a possibility of going to Japan. Whether they would have sent them or not, I don’t know but, they still had to stay in the Air Force, and they still had, to be on active duty. But than the bomb went off in Hiroshima and that ended everything.
MC: And that was it right.
MZ: Yes
MC: So he was sent home before the bombing of Hiroshima?
MZ: Yes
MC: So before he got out when was the last time you actually saw his face?
MZ: I guess it was like 2 years.
MC: So you didn’t see his face or hear his voice for 2 years?
MZ: No.
MC: Wow, I got to say that’s loyalty
MZ: Well, everybody was doing it, not everybody; a lot of marriages broke up.
MC: Was there a lot of support, for the soldiers in WWII, during this time?
MZ: Oh absolutely, they attacked us. Absolutely, everybody was supportive; we had no demonstrations, or anything, that only started later in Vietnam.
MZ: They had total support.
END OF PART IV
BEGINNING OF PART V
MC: So after the bombing of Hiroshima, was he pleased that he didn’t have to go back into a war?
MZ: Well, yes I guess, he would have stayed in, except that I said no. I had had enough. It was a long time. So he came out, and he didn’t go back in. A lot of people stayed in, and made it their career.
MC: Did he want to do that?
MZ: He would have liked to.
MC: What did he do after?
MZ: Well he went to work in contracting, and masonry, and building.
MC: Did he always carry with him that whole experience that you know he served his country, and…( gets cut off)
MZ: He was always proud of it, always.
MC: Back than it seemed like it meant more to serve this country, and protect the people that live here than it does now.
MZ: Well you know we were attacked; it wasn’t that we just went because we wanted to go, we were attacked. War was declared on us practically, so you left, you went.
MC: A lot of people now a days if there were a draft there would be draft dodgers, riots, and certain things like that. It’s pretty cool how in your time, people just went, no questions asked.
MZ: The only time you would have had that type of support, as the soldiers had there was if something had happened like the World Trade Center bombing. Everybody had the same attitude as than. Well now let’s get them! Other than that, any other time the boys had to go and everything, nobody had… It was not that we were invaded, like we were by the terrorists. Back than a lot of people signed up. Boys just signed up, and they didn’t have to. The fact that they came here to our soil like this, and 3,000 people get killed. It was the same kind of an attitude in WWII; they bombed Pearl Harbor, and yea.
MC: Did you know Tony during the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
MZ: He wasn’t in the service than.
MC: Yes, but did you know him?
MZ: Oh yes sure.
MC: Did you remember his reaction at all?
MZ: Everybody’s reaction was just startled, and angry. The whole nation!
MC: Did he at all say to you at this time, you know somebody should do something?
MZ: No.
MC: He wasn’t Vengeful about it or anything like that?
MZ: No, no he felt like everybody else, I mean this was terrible. But, as far as, saying I’m gonna go join up now, and take care of them or something. He never said that.
MC: As the wife of a Veteran who served in WWII, today what are some of your views toward the soldiers serving in Iraq? Or the wives of soldiers?
MZ: They have a very hard time, it’s gotta be very, very difficult because this is a strange war as far as I can see. I mean they don’t know who their enemy is. I mean in WWII you knew who your enemy was.
MC: They were the other guys wearing the Nazi colors or swat stickers.
MZ: And there was a battle line, and you met each other, and you went over to there country, and they went over to England.
MC: Different fighting?
MZ: Yea, different all together, now, these boys over there, they don’t know who their enemy is. Everybody looks the same, people are walking around the street like nothing, is happening, and the next thing you know they’ve got a bomb! It’s all together different, there’s no battle lines, there’s no place where they go and fight. Everybody’s fighting every place.
MC: In the papers during WWII, were there always like head lines about the war, and the advancements of the soldiers overseas?
MZ: A lot of it was, I mean there was other stuff too. I mean the stores, life was going on here, it was still… Advertisements from stores, people went shopping, and they ate, and they travelled. Well people didn’t travel much, they really stayed close to home, it was a different world. Nobody had ever flown, you couldn’t fly any way it was all for the service. Trains buses everything, you got to go if there was room after the soldiers went.
MC: So everything was basically for the soldiers?
MZ: Well sure, we all had to be supportive.
MC: Now back than, do you think on the news paper covers, I don’t know, let’s say Brittany Spears, or scandal, rather than the soldiers?
MZ: No! It was always very patriotic.
MC: Now a days, you know, you look at the papers, and instead of seeing the soldiers that are dying over there….
MZ: All this Hollywood nonsense, who cares!
MC: They’re protecting our country, and they’re not on the paper.
MZ: Yea who cares about these other people. I guess some people must care, they keep buying the papers.
MC: Would you say you’re a supporter of the war now over seas or no?
MZ: Right now, I would like to see them come home. I was a supporter of it, in the beginning, when I thought we had a purpose. It was real. I mean we thought that WWII was so long.
MC: How long was it?
MZ: Maybe about 4 years. Yea and this is 5 years going on, and for what?
MC: So than it was more like a sense of purpose?
MZ: Oh absolutely, and they went in and got it done.
MC: Now it seems like they’re just lolligaging around.
MZ: It’s tough, with tose boys over there, no. My views have changed, as many people’s have. I mean I’ll admit I thought we were doing the right thing when it first happened. Than aftertime went on, and all this stuff…
MC: Was Tony ever asked to serve again when another war came around, like Vietnam, or Korea?
MZ: No he wasn’t. He didn’t stay in after WWII, people that did, and became officers, which he would have did, he was an officer, he would have just moved up in rank. But those that stayed, they got called back. But he never did.
MC: Now, what they are doing with soldiers today a lot of time if they’ re up for honorable discharge they will be stop lost, or sent back.
MZ: They add more on their time card.
MC: Yea they just keep adding more, and more on time because there is no draft, so who else is gonna go.
MZ: That’s it! That’s why.
MC: If there was a draft today, like in WWII, would you support the draft or most likely be against it?
MZ: I’m at a different period of my life now, I have grandchildren, and sons that would have to go, and nephews, and friends like you that would have to go. It would have to be that someone invaded us here.
MC: Like another terrorist bombing?
MZ: Yea like that it would have to be something that really just got at the heart of America. But not to go over, and do somebody else’s battles, no. See we change too, I’m of a different feeling now, than I was. Event though I was young, and a young bride. I was young, and you have a different out look. But as you get older, and you have children, and grand children, you don’t want them to go.
MC: How has this experience of Tony going into the war, and the two of you getting married, and started a life together had an impact on your life.
MZ: I was always very proud of him, the war fortunately, and being shot down, and being a prisoner or anything. It really didn’t affect him mentally, or physically. SO…
MC: Thank God!
MZ: Yea!
MC: Did it make him who he was today?
MZ: He was strong before he went in. He says he takes a lot of credit for being a boy scout as a kid because he used to be out doors, and go on Hikes, and do different things away from the comforts of home. And his was an only child, but his parents never treated him like one. He was always able to do, and so he was so sufficient when he went. And some of the hardships, he was able to stand. At the end when the Germans knew, they were losing the war because the Russians were after them too. They would take these prisoners, and walk them to one place where they were, put them in box cars, take them to farms, empty places. A lot of boys couldn’t take those walks, and than some of them physically gave up, and expired. But he was able to do all that.
MC: He was able to go through all of that?
MZ: He was able to go through all of that, and he said, “it was only because he was never pampered, he was used to doing these kind of things, going on long Hikes, and being on his own a lot.
MC Did he say any of the reason why he was able to make it out alive, and be so strong, was because you were waiting for him in the end?
MZ: Yes, and he had a lot of faith.
MC: Really, he was very religious?
MZ: He was religious.
MZ: And he knew he had me home, his mother, and father, he was an only child.
MC: So he had a lot to live for?
MZ: Yes he had a lot to live for, he had a good family, and yea.
MC: I bet when he got here, he was just so happy to be home.
MZ: Oh Absolutely, Absolutely. The first thing he did when he got home; are you recording this?
MC: Yes.
MZ: Good, well the big joke in the family was that he went to buy a hat a military hat, because he had lost his. He went to that before seeing any of us (laughter). He had to show up home in uniform! He went to Macy’s first he had to buy that hat. We were waiting at home and he goes to Macy’s first to buy a hat.
MZ: But than of course he was ecstatic to be home.
